View topic - Feedback on Items in General...
This is going to sound mean, hopefully no one takes offense. It's not really up for debate, it's my opinion and there's nothing you can really do to change it, I just want to get my feelings and my opinion out there to be heard and not overlooked in some other random thread. It's feedback and that's what this forum is designed for.
Basically, I'm so tired of the items on here being so girly - even the more masculine/badass items turn out girly. I notice this especially with event items, the items designed for males to wear, are super girly looking and it's frustrating to me and I'm sure to others.
I have read through the lists of item suggestions, leveling item suggestions, user item contest suggestions, etc. and people suggest awesome things, but it seems like always (minus a random few) the items are girly based, especially the winners. Even if someone puts entries for something not so girly that are cool, they still don't win. The variety of items on the site is getting smaller and smaller, everything revolves around the same stuff and doesn't seem to go outside of this box Emy has set up.
Maybe the admin aren't fond of certain kinds of items, or they aren't their taste or style... but this is a business, plain and simple. If you want to reach a wider demographic and keep people interested you need to hit everything at lots of angles. Sure I like some of the cuter, girly items, but I still love some of the things that are in a place that hasn't been touched by the item options, but has been suggested repeatedly.
Like I said at the beginning, it's not up for debate because it's my opinion and it's feedback for the staff. If you have input feel free to add, but I'm not going to argue with you over what I'm seeing, if you're looking for a debate go somewhere else.
Basically, I'm so tired of the items on here being so girly - even the more masculine/badass items turn out girly. I notice this especially with event items, the items designed for males to wear, are super girly looking and it's frustrating to me and I'm sure to others.
I have read through the lists of item suggestions, leveling item suggestions, user item contest suggestions, etc. and people suggest awesome things, but it seems like always (minus a random few) the items are girly based, especially the winners. Even if someone puts entries for something not so girly that are cool, they still don't win. The variety of items on the site is getting smaller and smaller, everything revolves around the same stuff and doesn't seem to go outside of this box Emy has set up.
Maybe the admin aren't fond of certain kinds of items, or they aren't their taste or style... but this is a business, plain and simple. If you want to reach a wider demographic and keep people interested you need to hit everything at lots of angles. Sure I like some of the cuter, girly items, but I still love some of the things that are in a place that hasn't been touched by the item options, but has been suggested repeatedly.
Like I said at the beginning, it's not up for debate because it's my opinion and it's feedback for the staff. If you have input feel free to add, but I'm not going to argue with you over what I'm seeing, if you're looking for a debate go somewhere else.
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Personally, I have never had a boy base and never will. I'm not too into masculine items. I don't think they would appeal to the majority -- it's a site made mostly of girls. I'm not saying there aren't girls who wouldn't like masculine items (you are proof that you exist!) but I don't think there should be just as many boy items as girl items because they won't get used as often and would just be a waste of time and server space.
The themes of the items themselves are starting to get to me, though. A lot of the new items seem almost unusable or are copies of old items (the shorts pose on the new mushroom item are eerily similar to the shorts on Baby Suit, yes? Same with the shirt. The headband has striking similarities to the Giant Head Bow.). There needs to be more variety, and I wish that they would actually look at the items suggestion list, because there are fantastic item suggestions on there which would be easy to pixel and be different from what we already have.
The themes of the items themselves are starting to get to me, though. A lot of the new items seem almost unusable or are copies of old items (the shorts pose on the new mushroom item are eerily similar to the shorts on Baby Suit, yes? Same with the shirt. The headband has striking similarities to the Giant Head Bow.). There needs to be more variety, and I wish that they would actually look at the items suggestion list, because there are fantastic item suggestions on there which would be easy to pixel and be different from what we already have.
I've never been afraid of the wildest fights, not afraid of dying
But now I want off this ride 'cause you're scaring me and I don't like where we're going
I guess it's not entirely about the lack of masculine items. For instance, I know a few people that want like sci-fi/alien type stuff but it never gets done - nothing even close. And then I watch items like you mentioned be produced even though they look similar to other items that have already been on the site.
I'm asking for more variety, there isn't enough and it's getting frustrating. If the admin doesn't like sci-fi or alien stuff, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be added. There are plenty of items sitting around not being used just taking up server space, so I don't really see that as an excuse. You don't really know how many people want it or are going to use something until it's put out there, you know? There are plenty of people who don't request items or voice their opinions/feedback that might be interested in things.
Not to mention, like I said, expanding the site and reaching a wider demographic could be a really good thing for a site and help them bring in more money for features and other fun stuff.
edit: but you're right, it feels almost like the posts got to high in the threads for item suggestions and they just stopped looking at them, even though there are fantastic and different things in those posts that people will love and use and will be different.
I'm asking for more variety, there isn't enough and it's getting frustrating. If the admin doesn't like sci-fi or alien stuff, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be added. There are plenty of items sitting around not being used just taking up server space, so I don't really see that as an excuse. You don't really know how many people want it or are going to use something until it's put out there, you know? There are plenty of people who don't request items or voice their opinions/feedback that might be interested in things.
Not to mention, like I said, expanding the site and reaching a wider demographic could be a really good thing for a site and help them bring in more money for features and other fun stuff.
edit: but you're right, it feels almost like the posts got to high in the threads for item suggestions and they just stopped looking at them, even though there are fantastic and different things in those posts that people will love and use and will be different.
Last edited by Meli on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:34 am; edited 1 time in total
I get what you mean by that. We have some items that can be used for sci-fi purposes (like that skin pose on Cherry Blossom) but they weren't intended for that. It would be great to see some items that don't exactly "fit the mold", masculine or feminine. A lot of sci-fi things can go to both genders anyway.
That's true. I was more or less basing that off how often the male armor pose of Prince Warrior is used. I think I've seen it used once, maybe twice. The female pose pops up more often. That could just be because I only lurk about four of the subforums though, so I guess I can't really elaborate further on my thoughts about that.
The demographic for a site like this is very feminine to begin with. Girls like to dress up and chatter. Guys? Not so much. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be awesome to see some manly men on here who wear armor and antennas and are kickass in general, but I just don't see that happening because of where Emy chooses to advertise.
That's true. I was more or less basing that off how often the male armor pose of Prince Warrior is used. I think I've seen it used once, maybe twice. The female pose pops up more often. That could just be because I only lurk about four of the subforums though, so I guess I can't really elaborate further on my thoughts about that.
The demographic for a site like this is very feminine to begin with. Girls like to dress up and chatter. Guys? Not so much. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be awesome to see some manly men on here who wear armor and antennas and are kickass in general, but I just don't see that happening because of where Emy chooses to advertise.
I've never been afraid of the wildest fights, not afraid of dying
But now I want off this ride 'cause you're scaring me and I don't like where we're going
Meli is not the only person on here who likes manly and alien items. I do and I am sure there are a lot more users who feel the same too.
I have made a ton of alien and a few male avatars. And I think Meli means she wants to see a mixture of different items. I feel like a lot of the items are the same thing. @__ @ And I have suggestion a ton of cool item ideas before. Many people enter awesome item ideas as well. I just wished that something new and different would be turned into items. ^^
Yup. Just my feelings on the whole thing. xD
Please don't give me that use other poses for sci-fi things. We have done that a lot in the past. There is a few items to work with... :/ And it can be hard making avatars And I would love to see something new and different. Slowly beginning to feel that the items are not even worth questing for.
I have made a ton of alien and a few male avatars. And I think Meli means she wants to see a mixture of different items. I feel like a lot of the items are the same thing. @__ @ And I have suggestion a ton of cool item ideas before. Many people enter awesome item ideas as well. I just wished that something new and different would be turned into items. ^^
Yup. Just my feelings on the whole thing. xD
Please don't give me that use other poses for sci-fi things. We have done that a lot in the past. There is a few items to work with... :/ And it can be hard making avatars And I would love to see something new and different. Slowly beginning to feel that the items are not even worth questing for.
Yup! It's back open again, go take a look! :P
Leah wrote:Please don't give me that use other poses for sci-fi things. We have done that a lot in the past. There is a few items to work with... :/ And it can be hard making avatars And I would love to see something new and different. Slowly beginning to feel that the items are not even worth questing for.
I already said that the items you can work with weren't intended to be used for sci-fi and that it would be nice to see some that were actually sci-fi based and not just a happy accident.
I've never been afraid of the wildest fights, not afraid of dying
But now I want off this ride 'cause you're scaring me and I don't like where we're going
You're right, there aren't a lot of manly men on here right now and I'm not saying many of them particularly like to dress up avatars and chat about stuff, but I feel like if they added items that go both ways or are more for both genders than one or the other, then maybe the guys who do look at the ads won't just brush it off as too girly for them or something (hopefully I explained that right.)
If they come on here and see there are items they like and it's not all cutesy stuff then maybe the items that were intended for males will start being used more frequently. In general I want to see something new. I'm tired of seeing the same thing every time I look at a CI or DI, etc. So much suggestions have been made that would be fantastic to have and would hit both genders equally but they get passed up.
Even just looking through this month's user item contest entries, everything feels like it's already been done. Just about every entry isn't something new, it's something we already have in some form or another and I'm honestly freaked the hell out by it.
If they come on here and see there are items they like and it's not all cutesy stuff then maybe the items that were intended for males will start being used more frequently. In general I want to see something new. I'm tired of seeing the same thing every time I look at a CI or DI, etc. So much suggestions have been made that would be fantastic to have and would hit both genders equally but they get passed up.
Even just looking through this month's user item contest entries, everything feels like it's already been done. Just about every entry isn't something new, it's something we already have in some form or another and I'm honestly freaked the hell out by it.
They should design some of the advertisements to look more like game advertisements. Dark, fiery, fierce. That would draw more men in than fluffy clouds. We already have a female base here, time to target the males.
They do. I don't know if that's a biased admin deal or what. Perhaps this thread will make the admins think differently? There certainly is a market for sci-fi items, granted the fact that a lot of those types of items can be ambiguous. It would definitely draw more guys in if the main page had a banner that was dark and spooky instead of the usual overly girly cute theme. I can appreciate a good dark item every once in a while.
They do. I don't know if that's a biased admin deal or what. Perhaps this thread will make the admins think differently? There certainly is a market for sci-fi items, granted the fact that a lot of those types of items can be ambiguous. It would definitely draw more guys in if the main page had a banner that was dark and spooky instead of the usual overly girly cute theme. I can appreciate a good dark item every once in a while.
I've never been afraid of the wildest fights, not afraid of dying
But now I want off this ride 'cause you're scaring me and I don't like where we're going
Jester wrote:Well I wasn't really pointing at you. I know there are going to be a few more people going to say the same thing around those lines. xD Just after awhile you begin to run out of ideas.Leah wrote:Please don't give me that use other poses for sci-fi things. We have done that a lot in the past. There is a few items to work with... :/ And it can be hard making avatars And I would love to see something new and different. Slowly beginning to feel that the items are not even worth questing for.
I already said that the items you can work with weren't intended to be used for sci-fi and that it would be nice to see some that were actually sci-fi based and not just a happy accident.
Than have someone say that you can work with these few items while that person has a ton of things to work with. -nods-
But no worries I see your point now. -nods-
Yup! It's back open again, go take a look! :P
I agree, the ads target girls more than guys, which is fine - but there are a lot of girls out there that want to be badass with their avis and definitely guys that want the same thing. Maybe the admin is bias about what items they're choosing, theme wise or they just aren't seeing them. I hope they start looking into doing things that are different than what we have already seen.
Yeah, we can make do with what we have for the most part, but there's a lot of stretching and experimenting that goes into making avis that aren't cutesy and girly without looking bad. Just seeing too much of the same thing over and over is going to drive away a user base and keep new people from showing up.
Why would I buy this DI if I can get the Easter EI or the Baby item with similar shorts for my avi instead? Doesn't really make my investment via donation as worthwhile as it would if it was something completely new and different that hit a broad range of people.
Yeah, we can make do with what we have for the most part, but there's a lot of stretching and experimenting that goes into making avis that aren't cutesy and girly without looking bad. Just seeing too much of the same thing over and over is going to drive away a user base and keep new people from showing up.
Why would I buy this DI if I can get the Easter EI or the Baby item with similar shorts for my avi instead? Doesn't really make my investment via donation as worthwhile as it would if it was something completely new and different that hit a broad range of people.
Leah - Ah, I thought you were. My mistake. o3o What other themes could possibly be focused on besides sci-fi? I was thinking steampunk (I don't even like steampunk) but then got stuck. If the admins do end up seeing this, they should see suggestions as to what the userbase is looking for.
Meli - I know what you mean by trying to stretch the items. I make a lot of cosplay avatars in the dream avatar creator and sometimes it is so hard to get something to work with the few out-of-the-box items that are on here.
Very good point. Baby Suit is a lot cheaper than this current mushroom DI, too. If people see the similarities, they're probably just going to go buy Baby Suit from the exchange.
Meli - I know what you mean by trying to stretch the items. I make a lot of cosplay avatars in the dream avatar creator and sometimes it is so hard to get something to work with the few out-of-the-box items that are on here.
Very good point. Baby Suit is a lot cheaper than this current mushroom DI, too. If people see the similarities, they're probably just going to go buy Baby Suit from the exchange.
I've never been afraid of the wildest fights, not afraid of dying
But now I want off this ride 'cause you're scaring me and I don't like where we're going
dunno I mean alien/space/sci-fi and then like more medieval, dinosaur age, ice age, cyber stuff, gypsy stuff, robot, egyptian... still thinking of more stuff
pretty much all of these things have already been put in the items suggestion thread for DI/CI/LvL/Nametags etc
edit: Native American/Tribal, sea creatures, 50's stuff, different kinds of dogs, animal print skins, cupcakes, coral, maids, cowboy, horror, spartan, lizards, beaches, weddings, pregnancy, boxing, explorer, adventurer, jungle, duct tape, photography, casino, smoke, sailor, military, Viking, day of the dead, animal pajamas...
edit2: just looking through 10 pages of that thread, I saw like 5 people suggest space/scifi/alien/futuristic type stuff
pretty much all of these things have already been put in the items suggestion thread for DI/CI/LvL/Nametags etc
edit: Native American/Tribal, sea creatures, 50's stuff, different kinds of dogs, animal print skins, cupcakes, coral, maids, cowboy, horror, spartan, lizards, beaches, weddings, pregnancy, boxing, explorer, adventurer, jungle, duct tape, photography, casino, smoke, sailor, military, Viking, day of the dead, animal pajamas...
edit2: just looking through 10 pages of that thread, I saw like 5 people suggest space/scifi/alien/futuristic type stuff
Last edited by Meli on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:21 am; edited 8 times in total
Jester wrote:Leah - Ah, I thought you were. My mistake. o3o What other themes could possibly be focused on besides sci-fi? I was thinking steampunk (I don't even like steampunk) but then got stuck. If the admins do end up seeing this, they should see suggestions as to what the userbase is looking for.Steampunk is pretty cool.
Meli - I know what you mean by trying to stretch the items. I make a lot of cosplay avatars in the dream avatar creator and sometimes it is so hard to get something to work with the few out-of-the-box items that are on here.
Very good point. Baby Suit is a lot cheaper than this current mushroom DI, too. If people see the similarities, they're probably just going to go buy Baby Suit from the exchange.
I want to see Native American, Tribal maybe something Indian. With all of those amazing colors. * o*
Yup! It's back open again, go take a look! :P
Moderator
I would like to respond to the first post, and especially react to the part where you says that I'm the one who set up some kind of a box.
I am not particularly sure that this is accurate, and there are lots of different factors that play a role into what type of items we, are for the majority, getting.
The most important factor is that all of the pixelists are girls, and most girls like cute stuff. This seems to be really hard for the pixelists to design or pixel anything manly, or so I noticed for the past 2 years. I cannot force an item on them if they don't feel inspired by the specific theme, or if they don't think they would do a good job on the said item.
There is also a shortage of pixel artists out there, and the ones who are willing to work for an avatar site can only do so much.
We have been noticing the feedback about masculine items, and we have been trying to introduce for the past months different kind of DIs with one more masculine than the other.
I also do check the suggestion thread very often, and have a .txt file saved up with bunch of ideas.
There are also other factors that play a role, like the database, what our users prefer, what our users would like to see, what's being requested, how our users react to our previous manly DIs, and so on.
We have been trying harder lately to bring masculine clothing, but this is not always as easy as it sounds.
We did have a masculine clothing user contest last month, and 12 of these designs will be added to the shops next month, which should bring a wider variety of masculine items.
We will keep putting more efforts into bringing a larger range of items on Ernya, but there will always be cute items, because it's what the majority of our users are asking for.
I am not particularly sure that this is accurate, and there are lots of different factors that play a role into what type of items we, are for the majority, getting.
The most important factor is that all of the pixelists are girls, and most girls like cute stuff. This seems to be really hard for the pixelists to design or pixel anything manly, or so I noticed for the past 2 years. I cannot force an item on them if they don't feel inspired by the specific theme, or if they don't think they would do a good job on the said item.
There is also a shortage of pixel artists out there, and the ones who are willing to work for an avatar site can only do so much.
We have been noticing the feedback about masculine items, and we have been trying to introduce for the past months different kind of DIs with one more masculine than the other.
I also do check the suggestion thread very often, and have a .txt file saved up with bunch of ideas.
There are also other factors that play a role, like the database, what our users prefer, what our users would like to see, what's being requested, how our users react to our previous manly DIs, and so on.
We have been trying harder lately to bring masculine clothing, but this is not always as easy as it sounds.
We did have a masculine clothing user contest last month, and 12 of these designs will be added to the shops next month, which should bring a wider variety of masculine items.
We will keep putting more efforts into bringing a larger range of items on Ernya, but there will always be cute items, because it's what the majority of our users are asking for.
Like I said before, it's not entirely about more masculine items, but more about the variety of items. Sometimes, in business, you have to create things you don't necessarily like or aren't really inspired by, it's part of work especially in art when you get requests from customers. Frankly, I think that's a poor excuse, no offense to you or the artists but it's true, you give the customer what they're looking for or they aren't going to come to you. Why should I keep donating for things that are already on the website as other items, maybe a different colors, but essentially the same thing. It's just not worth the investment for me.
I might not like a website my customer wants me to design, but it's their website and it's what they want for their business and I will do my best to make it what they're looking for. Reading through pages 37-54 of the item suggestion lists, there are tons of people asking for new things that haven't been seen on this site yet, particularly things that aren't necessarily girly or focused on one gender or the other.
I get that there will be cute items, hell I like most of the cute items - but I'm losing interest in donating for items that aren't new to me. It's the same thing I saw a few months back and if other people are seeing this same thing and getting the same vibes about the items that are being released on the site, they're going to stop bothering with picking them up.
I believe you that you have looked through the list, I know you spend an outrageous amount of time with this site and keeping the users happy, which is part of the reason I wanted to make this thread. I wanted to say something maybe a lot of people won't because they feel like they're going to offend the amount of work that has gone into the site, but I still feel the same way about everything I said. I feel like there isn't enough variety in the items that we're getting and I feel like other users are seeing the same thing.
Lots of things are being requested, as I'm sure you know, but it seems like none of these suggestions are coming to life. They would all add variety to the items and give people more to work with to make new and interesting avis that most of them already have planned out in their heads, they're just waiting for that one item to show up.
Something has to change, we need more variety, masculine or not... sure cute items are great, but still we need something else. I don't want to be rude, but I feel like I'm pretty on point with this.
I might not like a website my customer wants me to design, but it's their website and it's what they want for their business and I will do my best to make it what they're looking for. Reading through pages 37-54 of the item suggestion lists, there are tons of people asking for new things that haven't been seen on this site yet, particularly things that aren't necessarily girly or focused on one gender or the other.
I get that there will be cute items, hell I like most of the cute items - but I'm losing interest in donating for items that aren't new to me. It's the same thing I saw a few months back and if other people are seeing this same thing and getting the same vibes about the items that are being released on the site, they're going to stop bothering with picking them up.
I believe you that you have looked through the list, I know you spend an outrageous amount of time with this site and keeping the users happy, which is part of the reason I wanted to make this thread. I wanted to say something maybe a lot of people won't because they feel like they're going to offend the amount of work that has gone into the site, but I still feel the same way about everything I said. I feel like there isn't enough variety in the items that we're getting and I feel like other users are seeing the same thing.
Lots of things are being requested, as I'm sure you know, but it seems like none of these suggestions are coming to life. They would all add variety to the items and give people more to work with to make new and interesting avis that most of them already have planned out in their heads, they're just waiting for that one item to show up.
Something has to change, we need more variety, masculine or not... sure cute items are great, but still we need something else. I don't want to be rude, but I feel like I'm pretty on point with this.